I booked a flight on Spirit Airlines about a week ago out of Orlando to Las Vegas for tomorrow, August 5th. This morning, the 4th, I get a call from Spirit Airlines telling me that my flight was canceled and I needed to call an 800 number to make a new reservation. That's sucks, but hey, that's the reality of the god awful air industry here in the States (Dear Uncle Sam, please stop giving them money and let the free market work. K, thx, bye.)I call the number, go through all the motions hitting the menu items, and then get a message telling me that due to high volume, I should use SpiritAir.com instead. The 800# then hangs up on me. I call back, hitting 0 to talk to an operator, same message, hangs up on me. I try all the appropriate sounding options on their voice mail, and get hung up on every single time. Thanks, Spirit Air! What went from a somewhat understandable situation (relativity is a bitch), now has me pissy. Finally, I try "book new flight" to speak to a spirit airlines sales agent. Sure enough, that one (the option where they take the money) works fine. I get entered into the normal "too many calls" queue and patiently wait my turn.
After a long and annoying wait, a young lady answers the phone and starts trying to help me figure out what's up. There's no reason for canceling the flight, there's only one other option -- putting me in Vegas 5 hours past my intended arrival.. The reason I chose Spirit Airlines to begin with. To add to my frustration, it's a flight that I purposely paid more money to avoid (bigger layover, late time, etc). There's no upgrades or anything like that, no option for a partner airline or a transfer, no real attempt at anything. Here's the kicker. They make you pay extra to bring a bag. They refused to even refund this $5 each way fee, not even for one the of ways.
So, instead of losing $5 on a customer who has every right to be angry, I'll write this blog post and tell all my traveling buddies to add Spirit Airlines to their growing list of airlines to avoid. If Google works their magic like they usually do, at least one of the 4,931 daily searches for "Spirit Airlines" will turn up this result and save someone the headache (and hopefully end up costing Spirit Airlines $6 or more). Yay, cluetrain! Seriously, if you are considering saving money by flying Spirit Air, pay the extra $20 and use someone else. It's not worth it.
Spirit Airlines can't be counted on, they'll nickel and dime you on things like baggage (seriously.. WTF), and they will make zero effort what so ever to rectify any situation that they create. I'm totally expecting tomorrow to be a complete debacle, and will arrive at the airport extra early. Possibly with boxing gloves (and sadly, $5 for my baggage)
Will someone, anyone, please fix air travel?
August 5th, 2007 Update
I arrived at MCO a couple hours early to find a really approachable ticket counter (no line, etc). The young lady at the desk was very helpful. I explained to her that every two years, some college buddies and I get together for a reunion of sorts, and Spirit Airlines was causing me to miss the big first-night get together. She offered to get me a free round trip travel voucher. After going into the back for a few minutes, she returned to inform me that she could not in fact give me a voucher, because the problem originated in Detroit, not Orlando (cue Celly's told-you-so laughter here). She suggested that I try calling the corporate number (where this all started), and trying to complain again (as my buddy Mike suggested to me on Facebook).
Breezing through security (Orlando's got it down to a Science), I found myself with a couple hours to kill. Evidently, Spirit Airlines phone system is just as slammed packed at noon on Sunday as it is on a late Saturday afternoon -- I was hung up on with the "We're to busy to give a shit" message once again. I knew that'd be the case, I just felt obligated to try ;). Speaking with a sales agent, I was unable to get a round trip voucher, but I was able to get a $100 credit towards my next Spirit Airlines flight from one of the supervisors. Total time of call was about 35 minutes, once you skip all the fake options and go straight for the sales desk.
$100 means that if I have am ever forced to fly Spirit, I can check 5 bags on the day of my flight! ($20/bag day of, $10 in advance). I say that in jest, but I am pleased that if you do complain repeatedly and persistently, they will at least give in somewhere.
A number of people sent me some links involving Spirit's consistently bad customer service though, and I figure I'll share them here:
- Woman Sues Spirit Airlines in Small Claims Court and Wins
- Read Before You Click
- Why Spirit Airlines Sucks (Still Sucking) (Update on Spirit's Suckability)
Anyway, I'm about to board my flight for Vegas by way of Atlantic City. Talk about an itinerary of sin... I wonder if we refuel at a New Orleans whore house? hah! If Spirit loses my baggage, and I have to buy clothes, will I have to pay for the required new baggage on the way home? So many questions.. At least I have $100 in baggage credits now.
August 9th, 2007 Update
Thanks to all the folks who left comments sharing their experiences with Spirit. I arrived back this morning after a brutal red eye (all vegas redeyes are). I wanted to chime in and mention my experience with the cramped seating some people have mentioned.
If you are over, I donno, 5'10 (I'm about 6 or 6'1), you will feel like a giant on this airline. The seat in front of me came up to about my armpit area. The seats have a pretty cool neck-holder-rest thing that adjusts and confirms like a neck pillow. The problem I ran into was that I couldn't get it to move up, so it just dug into my upper back the whole time. It was a red eye though, so I pretty much slept the whole time anyway. If you are expecting a pillow and or blanket though, bring one yourself, as Spirit doesn't have any (..about right).
Summary / Conclusion
Yes, I did buy the cheapest ticket. No, I did not save any money (add in the baggage fees, and it was actually more expensive). Yes, I got burnt and lost a day of my trip. Yes, I will avoid Spirit Airlines as much as I humanly can. Yes, I will continue to share my experience with friends through conversations, both online and off. If you've had a bad encounter with this airline, I encourage you to join our conversation down in the comments or on your own blog. The only way to improve a business's customer service is to complain about it. Viva la internet.
Response to a Comment (August 8th, 2007)
"Welcome to the real world. Things don't always go how you want them to go. You bought the cheapest possible airline tickets to Vegas and then you threw a tantrum when your flight got cancelled. You're lucky they called you the day before and gave you a chance to make other plans. Instead you chose to pout and whine. You are a vindictive spoiled child. Grow up and get over yourself." - Mike(response posted here, as well as email)
I hope that I'm not coming off as throwing a tantrum, but rather venting on my own personal blog about some awful customer service that I've encountered with a particular airline. I post my thoughts and experiences to my personal blog to enhance communication with my friends and family. I have no idea who you are, so I'm assuming you fall outside of those two categories. Welcome to the conversation, anyhow. Ain't the internet grand?
In 2006, I lived out of a suit case for 9 out of 12 months. So far, 2007 has been significantly better, as I'm looking at about 2, maybe 3 months tops. In all of this travel, I've encountered all sorts of situations. In every single case, it's the same -- if the event is caused by 'God' (aka weather), the airline is off the hook. With Spirit Airlines, this does not seem to be the case (an argument that countless customer reviews and complaints support). Every airline I've experienced a problem with as offered some sort of token to the customer, without them asking for it, when the fault is squarely on them. It took me close to 2 hours total to receive any admission of guilt.
The domestic airline industry here in the states has encountered some interesting business model changes lately. I recommend reading Daniel Gross's latest column in Newsweek, which I ironically read in the airport last night while my plane was delayed. These changes have made air travel a complete debacle for many people, while largely increasing company profits. As consumers, we've begun to expect these headaches and accept them as part of the deal -- this is incorrect. Folks need to complain and engage in word of mouth if we expect the experience to improve. In the particular case of Spirit Airlines, I'd suggest that you read the comments on this blog post as well other customer reviews on the internet.
Thanks for the understanding and for sharing your thoughts. Oh, and thanks for the name calling. Dick.
Best,
Alex
(conversation continues a tad in the comments below)
UPDATE: Spirit Airlines Employee Responds
A reader identifying themselves as "Tonya" working out of Detroit has offered her perspective in the situation. It's enlightening to hear about Spirit's inability to handle call volume from the other side. On the same token, she explains some of the things that are out of their control.
Keep up the stories and the comments -- we're now third on Google when searching for Spirit Airlines. It's only a matter of time before someone on the corporate level checks in to see what their policies are doing to their airline.
UPDATE: Spirit CEO Sends Rude E-mail to a Commenter (August 20th, 2007)
Ben Baldanza, CEO of Spirit, needs to learn how to use the "Reply to All" button. The level of arrogance in his response to a customer's complaint is mind blowing.
UPDATE: I've had a lot of people ask me how much I paid for my Spirit Airline ticket. I paid $320 and change for a round trip fare. Factor in the baggage fees, and it was about even with another airline. I picked Spirit because of the preferable flight schedule. Yes, they do offer $9 fares, but it would seem as if you have to live in Guam to have access to them.
UPDATE: CEO's email gaffe has caused this to go national. "Let him tell the world how bad we are." -- I think we can handle that one, Ben. Here's a rant I wrote with all my random thoughts of various comments for anyone interested.
Comments...
(Page 2)16. Im a contract cleaner out at Detriot, and were contracted to clean spirits aircraft. So I would like to toss out one little rant of my own about the people that fly spirit. You people are the most desgusting people ever. I dont know how you people do it, but you manage to get ink everywhere even on the seats. If you dont the proper thing to do with your gum after your done with it, then please dont fucking chew it, basically quit proving the typical american sterotype of being lazy slobs right... Oh an p.s. mike you got dominated... damn!
4:12AM on Aug 10th 2007 by Joe
17. Alex, I have flown Spirit over 40 round trips and the inflight service is typically very good however I agree with your comments regarding the phone customer service. I tried to change my flight for three days prior to departure and the 800 number message said they were too busy and I would have to call back - then it hung up! I called for three days and same message! So suffice to say, I was unable to change my ticket so I wrote Spirit and their response- your ticket has been forfeited!!!! I have written four times and can not get a response so I googled to find their corporate office info. Your blog was one of the results. I intend to get someone on the phone from Spirit - Stay tuned!
9:02AM on Aug 10th 2007 by Lisa
18. How someone can so staunchly defend horrific customer service is beyond me. Alex is right! The only way to effect change is to be vocal about it. It’s only been 6 days since your initial post and you’re already the 3rd listing when searching ‘Spirit Airlines’ on Google. I can only hope and pray that someone in the right position at Spirit Airlines takes notice and at the very least, stops charging customers extra for having luggage!!!
Oh, and I’d also like to add that Mike got dominated.
11:19AM on Aug 10th 2007 by Steve
19. For the markets to work, the customer must be informed as to value. Spirit hasn't done that, but this Bog has informed at least a few. I certainly would not fly Spirit Airlines if I expected to arrive anywhere as planned, nor expect to obtain help from them to do so should it be necessary. I see no reason to ridicule someone who tries to inform other potential customers of Spirits' value. It may beat hitchhiking, but not by much. I predict bankruptcy, and if I had their stock, I'd sell it.
11:22AM on Aug 10th 2007 by Dave
20. My conversation with Mike spun out to an offline series of e-mails. His attempted defensive was "when I was stuck in the north tower and my cell phone didn't work, I didn't blame verizon." Not only is that completely out of the realm of context, to invoke 9/11 in such a silly internet debate is beyond fathomable to me (and something I consider to be massively disrespectful.. we're not talking foreign policy here). Needless to say, I won't be responding to that scum bag anymore. I looked up his IP, and he appears to work for Harris in Melbourne, Fl, not Spirit Airlines, though. Go figure.
Thanks to everyone for the support in general. When I wrote this post, I figured it'd end up underneath a rock somewhere on the internet and that'd be that. It seems like it's ignited a lot of passion out of a lot of people.
If someone from Spirit does end up reading this (and at this point, I suspect they will), it seems like most of the problems are easily addressable. Make your 800# actually work for support calls, have some sort of policy for addressing screw ups (no matter how small), and consider offering at least one bag checked free while a liquid ban is in place.
11:35AM on Aug 10th 2007 by Alex Rudloff
21. I don’t know if this helps or not but according to WSVN in Miami, bad weather in the northeast, pilots calling in sick and crew shortages caused at least 36 cancellations over the weekend throughout Spirit’s network. This could explain why your flight was cancelled. The customer service representatives should have at least given you a reason for canceling your flight. I had good experiences on Spirit and I am shocked to say the least to hear about your bad experience. Hope you had a great time in Las Vegas!!!
12:22PM on Aug 10th 2007 by Ilana
22. Seems to me this "Mike" is a shill (employee) of Spirit Airlines and a jerk.
Thanks Alex for the informative blog.
Unfortunately I have booked a flight with Spirit to Las Vegas in October...but fortunately I DID take insurance....seems to me this might be a very good time to change to another airline. The luggage matter : guess what - if you try to buy the luggage fare online the system doesn't work.
Meanwhile "Smarter Travel" had this information on being "bumped" from your flight and I thought it might be helpful to all who have been "worked over" by Spirit.Apparently the DOT is the place to complain about Spirit. And it might be a good idea to print out the following information and bring it with you whenever you are scheduled to fly.
Voluntary bumping
Before bumping anyone against their will, airlines must first ask for volunteers. Typically, airlines will refund part of your ticket and offer a travel voucher valid for up to one year.Before accepting an airline's offer for a voluntary bump, be sure you have all the facts. Ask when the next flight is, and whether you'll have a confirmed seat or be left on standby (and possibly stranded for longer than you'd like). If the next flight isn't until the following day, find out if the carrier will pay for food, lodging, and ground transportation.Be sure to also find out what, exactly, a "free ticket" constitutes. Ask if the ticket is valid on both domestic and international flights, if you can make reservations in advance, how long it is valid, if it has blackout dates, and if it is transferable to another person. Remember that compensation for voluntary bumps is at each airline's discretion, so as a volunteer, you have bargaining power.
3:58PM on Aug 10th 2007 by Another Lisa
23. Spirit, not I, cancelled my flight. They promised my refund after 10-15 business days (their words, not mine). It is now more than 15 business days and no sign of my refund anytime soon. Most reputable companies return your money immediately. I don't know why it takes them so long to return your money. I suggest you think it over very carefully before buying a Spirit ticket.
3:59PM on Aug 10th 2007 by Leslie Schonberg
24. We too had an horrible experience with this airline. You hit the nail
squarely on the head about their customer service, it's awful.
Went through the same telephone experience and got so frustrated, we
gave up in disgust.
I will only use Spirit airlines if it's a life and death situation.
This is what they did to me and my 90 year old diabetic aunt.........
this past march we were booked from Kingston, Jamaica to Orlando, Fl.
We arrived in Fort Lauderdale, late and then had to wait for our gate.
After about 30 minutes waiting, they put us on another gate with no
agent to help guide us, and no wheelchair that we requested.
My dear old aunt had to hobble her way to customs and immigration.
We were the last ones to leave bag claim because one piece of our luggage was missing. Turns out the missing piece was left on the floor
in the baggage drop off area. We then tried to hurry back to the gate
for our connection to Orlando only to be told the flight had departed.
What to do now, my aunt is old and diabetic and requires a special diet.
After some time, we finally found one poor agent surrounded by angry
passengers in the same boat as us. When we got our chance to speak, we
were told that we would have to wait 24 hours for another flight to
get us home. This was not an option, given the situation with my aunt.
We received a voucher for a hotel for the night, no hotel name written
on the voucher, had to track down another agent to get hotel name.
We arrive at the hotel to find no food available, had to settle for
chicken nuggets from across the street.
We were so tired and fed up with this whole ordeal, we decided to rent
a car and drive home from Fort Lauderdale.
Wrote to their customer service department about this and after several
weeks, received a letter basically saying "we did nothing wrong"
I would suggest avoiding Spirit at all costs, pay the extra fare and
get better service. What irks me most, is the fact that we were late
getting to Fort Lauderdale because they arrived in Kingston late, waiting for connecting passengers but couldn't do the same for us.
7:09PM on Aug 10th 2007 by Norman and Isla Gray
25. I must agree with the original post that spirit Airline does suck! I was just looking for their address to send a letter with my two cents on a trip I had with them just a week ago from Tampa to Jamaica and back.
First upon arriving in Jamaica there was no luggage. I was told it would be on the next flight. Went back to the airport, no luck, there was no spirit agent to speak with me because they claimed they had already left. I demanded to go to the Spirit office and was told the same thing by a lady at the door. I waited just a few minutes and sure enough there walked a few agents through the door, (strangely enough, the lad who took the information) they refused to offer any compensation for the lost luggage. Not looking to be paid, just at least a bit of toiletries to keep me going.
I didn't get my bag until almost 4 days after I had traveled and I had to call over seas to Fort Lauderdale just to find my bag, Fort Lauderdale says the bag was sent Kingston said it wasn't and it was this bunch of run around and lies.
Okay so I was frustrated and very upset but kind of got over it when I finally got my bag. On my return I turned up at the airport only to hear that the flight was delayed, no big deal, I will wait it was only an hour and had 3 to spare in Fort Lauderdale. Then the flight was delayed again, this time I became concerned because coming back into the country you have to do the immigration and customs thing so you know it is going to take time.
Arrived in FTL got my bag, no spirit agent, no one to facilitate the stranded passengers who missed there total of 12 connections, all the agents started to hide in the back office and when the people got upset they call the police (seems they like to do this instead of standing up to their responsibility).
After standing in a line that was obviously going nowhere for 30 minutes and the line didn't move I decided to go over to the agents that were checking in a Costa Rica flight and asked to speak with a supervisor. Some guy name Leon came out with some cock and bull story saying that were given a choice of taking the flight or not in Jamaica and that they received a call from Jamaica at 2 Pm to say the 3:30PM flight would be late. Now how does that affect me when I didn't receive the email and how could Kingston send such an email when the plane is coming from Fort Lauderdale?
Okay I am now fuming because it is all a bunch of lies however I manage to keep my composure. I demanded to see Leon's supervisor Joseph who had been in his office all this time with not even as much as an apology tot he customers. He is not able to make any decisions neither his GM Gregg whose last name they refused to give out.
Seeing I had a flight with Southwest out of Fall and the flight arrive 3 hrs later, I missed the flight and was told by spirit they were not responsible for me missing the flight as there agreement is that they will get me to my final destination.
I quickly pointed out that the moment I gave them my money we come into a contractual agreement that states that they will get me to Fort Lauderdale by 6: 23 PM not 9 PM.
Needless to say, they were no help, I had to spend the night in Fort Lauderdale and book a new flight on Southwest so I could get home for one day before my next trip.
In the past 2 months I must have flown spirit about 12 times and they were always delayed, lack of customer service and very difficult to deal with. Needless to say, this latest experience broke the camels back.
The problem that spirit has is they are not equipped to facilitate the amount of people they are booking and the number of flights they keep adding. They are short staff and short on planes so once one is delayed for the day everything goes to shambles. The staff all agrees to this and admitted that this happens everyday hence the very high staff turn over. The Fort Lauderdale hub is bursting at it seems and Spirit isn't cheap so don't let there Fabiano deals fool you. All the sodas that airlines serve are complementary from the companies but no Spirit sells it. All airline offers one free bag per person, no spirit charges for every piece they are operating a cattle cart service airline and the last time I checked, I was still human.
12:44AM on Aug 11th 2007 by Marsha Smith
26. On August 8 I flew from KIN to FLL on Spirit. All things went well out of KIN, with a brief delay. I was on the 12:05 flight with a connection to LGA at 4:05. On 8/7 I received an email from Spirit suggesting I rebook on the 8 pm flight. I called Spirit and got 2 hangups before a 10 minute wait for a customer service rep. The rep Courtney assured me that there was no need to change my reservation and assured me that I would make my flight on time because the arrival gate was across from the departure gate. When I asked about Immigration and Customs, I was told that it would not be a problem. On flight day there was a slight delay, possible with all airlines. I arrived in FLL and waited 45 minutes for my luggage running back and forth between the 2 carousels. I finally got my bags and hurried to recheck in and found only 2 CSR's, one of whom was quite supercilious. She informed me that my flight had left and would rebook me on the later flight. She then proceeded to give me the last seat on the plane and got upset when I asked for another seat, I found out that she gave a broken seat (What a bitch?). Upstairs I discovered that my flight had not left but had just arrived and I could not get my seat back because it was now overbooked. After calmly (for me) arguing with the agent, I was asked for my old boarding pass so I would not sneak on board the flight. Eventually I got a supervisor who was a sweetheart and he was able to get me on my original flight but my luggage would come in on the later flight and they did not deliver luggage. I opted to travel with my luggage.
Imagine my annoyance when insult was added to injury when the cabin crew announced they were waiting for a passenger on the Cancun flight, (there were 17 on us coming from KIN). On arriving at LGA at 11:30 pm, the first thing I saw was my luggage waiting in the baggage claim area.
I booked Spirit because I needed to go home for my mom's 70th birthday and when I booked in April, Air Ja and AA's lowest fare was >$700 and Spirit was $400. Yes I went cheap but I've done that before and rec'd more than a complimentary glass of water and slightly better customer service. Will one of the secret shopper companies go after this airline as a client, I am willing to fly and not be reimbursed to slam them. Needless to say, next time I will look for another less expensive fare.
2:40AM on Aug 11th 2007 by Laura
27. WOW!!!! Seems their KIN-FLL service has lots of problems.
They should consider suspending the route to allow for a real
airline to operate the service. I would be willing to pay more
for better treatment.
11:11AM on Aug 11th 2007 by Norman and Isla Gray
28. Just so you know the reason alot of times calls are not put through the reservation system is because the reservations department is only open Mon-Friday business hours! Something like 9am-6pm.
I won't say how I know this... but it's a fact. They're operations are in Miramar, Florida. And they don't want to pay for people to be there later, or to work on the weekends!!!
Isn't that a joke???
7:23PM on Aug 11th 2007 by linda
29. Do you think Mike might work for spirit airlines?
10:13PM on Aug 11th 2007 by rachael
30. I am a Spirit Employee in Detroit Reservations. First off I am a soon to be laid off employee and I apologize for any and all inconveniences that any of you have experienced with the Airlines. I don't do this on the behalf of Spirit. I offer it because I still believe in "Customer Service". Something that is very hard for us as employees to give anymore due to new company policies and lack of staffing.
The reservation center is open 24/7 365 days a year. Customer Relations on the other hand is only open 9a-5p mon-Fri. Two separate departments.
If you read the news recently Spirit has given their Detroit based pilots 60 days to relocate to Ft Lauderdale. They are closing there Detroit base for pilots. Wouldn't you love to be given 60 day notice to relocate or find a new job. So guess who are not very happy campers. I'm sure the Detroit based Flight Attendents will also be given the same notice soon.
Reservations is being outsourced to the Dominican Republic and the Phillipines. The Detroit res center will be closed after August 31st. Another group out of a job. Thank you very much Spirit.
I used to be proud to work for this airline. We used to be ontime/clean/friendly and be able to offer excellent customer service.
Now we are frequently late, the planes are filthy and for being newer planes don't look like it. How do you all get ink, etc. all over the seats. And if you spill something at home don't you clean it up?
Anyway, not that we still can't be curtious or empathetic, that's about all that the company allows us to do for you.
We do NOT have enough staff to answer the phones, not that you didn't already notice. But once again come Sept 1st you'll be speaking to someone overseas. Hopefully you will be able to understand them. The employees are just as frustrated as you, when we can't keep up on the call volume. And when you do get us can you please have your flight confirmation code or credit card available. We do need those to access your reservations or to make or change one. And it will expedite the call.
The company policies on baggage fees are not negotiable, the software is not able to be overridden for the fees. And each passengers gets 2 pieces either $5 each online or $10 each at the airport. The 3rd piece for a passenger is then $100. And that charge for a 3rd piece is pretty standard for most airlines (except maybe SWA). But how much of the house do you need to bring with you. The more luggage you put on a plane the more fuel you put on, so hence the hefty charge on the 3rd piece. Been to the gas pumps lately.
The 24 hour policy to change your reservation we have always had. We used to be able to change or cancel within 24 hours of a flight. But since the 1st of the year Corporate Headquarters has enforced the "No changes or cancellations w/in 24hr of a flight". If you don't change or cancel at least 24 or more hours before your flight it WILL be Forfeited. Even if you try to change or cancel it online the software will not allow you to. Doesn't matter the reason, not that we don't care, we do but we are NOT able or allowed to change or cancel your reservation within 24 hours of your flight. No one in the company can waive this. So please don't ask. If we could we would believe me.
We can only look at rebooking you an NEW reservation.
In regards to an international flight. With any airline they ask that you be at the airport 2-3 hours before your flight. And you must be completely checked in a minimum of 1 hour before for an international flight. Not just walking up to the counter 1 hour before. Your documents need to be checked for validity and entered into the system and your luggage still needs to go thru TSA checks. These take a little more time than for a domestic flight.
I am not trying by any means to stick up for the airline, just put a little perspective out there.
I am as disgusted as you when it comes to alot of the changes that are going on with this airline.
I am not able to reveal my true name or email as I could get fired and lose what little of a severence package that the company is giving us. Hopefully those sitting in Coporate will see the writing on the wall before it is too late and turn around their thinkings on what they are doing to this company.
It is after all, all about Customer Service, being On-time, Clean Planes, Luggage arriving with passengers and having the ability to be accomodating to the customers needs.
And lets forget the "Silly" low fares, offer a reasonable fare and product to everyone.
Thanks for this blog Alex
11:18AM on Aug 12th 2007 by Tonya